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Most CRM problems are not software problems. They are adoption, process and implementation problems.
In this episode, Ben Fuller breaks down why businesses struggle to get value from CRMs, how long ROI actually takes, and the practical decisions that determine whether a rollout succeeds or quietly fails.
Most businesses do not fail with CRM because they picked the wrong software. They fail because they underestimated the operational change that comes with implementation.
In this Motii Playbook mini episode, Katie Tassone-Milligan sits down with Motii co-founder and CRM specialist Ben Fuller to unpack what really happens after the decision to “get a CRM” is made. Drawing on experience from more than 1,000 CRM implementations and 5,000 demos, Ben shares a practical view of why adoption becomes the make-or-break factor in almost every rollout.
The conversation moves beyond software features and into the realities of business operations. From poor data quality and over-engineered systems through to internal resistance and unrealistic expectations, this episode explores the common reasons CRM projects lose momentum before they ever produce meaningful value.
For founders, operators and sales leaders, the discussion is a useful reminder that CRM is not simply a technology purchase. It is an operational framework that changes how teams work, communicate and follow through. When implemented properly, it creates visibility, accountability and consistency. When handled poorly, it becomes another expensive system people avoid using.
This episode also explores the growing divide between legacy enterprise CRMs and newer, more flexible platforms, along with the role implementation partners play in helping businesses avoid costly mistakes early.
A CRM does not create value simply because it exists. The real ROI comes from improving follow-up, visibility and accountability across the sales process.
As Ben explains:
“It’s really that creating the follow-up for the next thing that they need to do… that creates that ROI.”
For businesses with shorter sales cycles, positive operational changes can often be felt within the first month. Longer sales cycles naturally take more time before measurable revenue outcomes appear.
One of the biggest reasons CRM implementations fail is that businesses try to do too much too quickly.
Instead of simplifying the sales process first, many companies attempt to replace every workflow at once. The result is complexity, resistance and low adoption.
Ben’s recommendation is to start small:
“Carve out the core of the sales process and that’s going to be phase one.”
Successful CRM rollouts prioritise usability before sophistication.
Many sales teams resist CRM because they believe the system is there to monitor them rather than support them.
That mindset usually comes from poor communication during rollout.
Ben reframes the purpose clearly:
“A CRM is about making the lives of your salespeople easier.”
When teams understand how the system helps them stay organised, reduce admin and close more deals, adoption improves significantly.
Poor-quality data can derail implementation before teams fully adopt the platform.
Duplicate records, outdated contacts and incomplete information immediately reduce confidence in the system.
As Ben puts it:
“Dirty data kills CRMs.”
Strong data preparation and cleanup before launch is critical if businesses want teams to trust and use the platform properly.
Even strong implementations need refinement once teams begin using the system day-to-day.
Processes evolve, reporting changes and workflows need adjusting over time. That is why ongoing support matters.
The goal is not perfection on day one. The goal is building a flexible system that can improve alongside the business.
While experienced operators may handle some CRM setup internally, most businesses benefit from working with implementation specialists.
Ben recommends looking for partners with:
The best CRM partners do more than configure software. They help businesses avoid operational mistakes that become costly later.
Voiceover: Motii acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia. We pay our respects to elders past and present, and acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this land.
Welcome to the Motii Playbook. If you've ever felt like your systems are technically in place but somehow still feel chaotic behind the scenes, you're in the right spot. This is where we share what we're seeing, what's working, what's not, and the lessons businesses learn the hard way. Think of it as practical strategies straight from the trenches. Let's dive in.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Welcome back to another Motii Playbook mini episode where we tackle the questions we get asked the most and give you the answers straight. I'm Katie, marketing and brand strategist for Motii, and I'm joined again by Motii's original co-founder and CRM expert Ben Fuller. Welcome back, Ben.
Ben Fuller: Good morning, Katie.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: And in our last mini episode we talked about what a CRM actually is, we even defined that acronym folks, how it stacks up against spreadsheets—P.S. not very well—and how to know if you're ready. And today we're gonna dive into the stuff that nobody really warns you about, and that's around return on investment (ROI) timelines, why implementations fail, and whether or not you should consider a partner or you can DIY it, do it all yourself. So again, I think we are very well placed having you on this episode Ben, having done over a thousand implementations and 5,000 demos.
Ben Fuller: Oh, don't remind me. Oh my god.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: So let's dive in, right? Let's go right at the start. So, how long does it actually take to see a return on investment from a CRM?
Ben Fuller: You took the words right out of my mouth, which is how long is a piece of string. Look, it is a complex question in a sense that it really depends on the size of your business, the complexity of your business, the humans that work at your business. Are they tech-savvy? Are they going to adopt easily? Are they flexible? Or are they a bunch of 60-year-old blokes who hate the thought of opening a computer and are probably never going to do it? And so it really does depend.
But let's talk typical, I think let's talk typical, right? So your typical business, let's say, let's say there's 20 staff, let's say there's four or five salespeople, a bunch of admin, some accounting people, and then the people who fulfill the orders, whatever those orders might be, right? Okay. I think a typical business like that can see a return, an ROI, at the end of the first full month, right? So let's say that you go live at the end of March...
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yep.
Ben Fuller: ...and the team's properly trained up, and they start using the system. Yeah, it's a little bit clunky for them to begin with, they're trying to get used to everything and stuff like that. But, as part of the implementation, you would have got all their existing data, put it into the system, you've provided them with a video-based training manual, you've given them some live training sessions. They've asked all the questions that they need to, and they're now starting to do two things: record their interactions by way of activities and notes in the system, and then create the follow-up for it. And it's really that creating the follow-up for the next thing that they need to do within their role within the business that creates that ROI, right? Because less things slip through the cracks, and it means that more deals are closed, higher conversion rates, all of that type of stuff. And so, I think that the answer is at the end of the first full month, so 30 days, you can—and look, Katie, this depends on the length of your sales cycle.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Of course.
Ben Fuller: So if your sales cycle is six months long, then, look, the ROI is not... like true return on investment is not going to be there until you start closing the deals related to the implementation of the CRM, right?
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah, yeah. Yep.
Ben Fuller: But, and so, yeah, okay, you've gotta be a little bit flexible with the interpretation of meaning of ROI in this, in this example, right?
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Of course.
Ben Fuller: I think 30 days you'll start to see the results, the positive results of the CRM implementation, if not the actual return on investment.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah, once you've got that set up and people are actually using it. And I guess the using it factor and some of the other things you touched on really leads us to our next question which is why do so many CRM implementations fail?
Ben Fuller: The main reason CRM implementations fail is... well, there's two reasons. One, people try to cram too much into going live in phase one. Right? They try to build a finished product and the adoption from the humans that work at the companies that have to use the system, the adoption curve is so steep that people begin pushing back against it because you're trying to replace 20 different processes at once. You're far better off going "we're going to carve out the core of the sales process and that's going to be phase one and we're going to get people up and running in the system even if it's not everyone in the company, but the core sales team and a few managers and some admins for example."
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yep. Yep.
Ben Fuller: And so, I think one of the reasons it fails is people overcomplicate the setup of the CRM. Some CRM systems... Salesforce, for example, just complicated full stop.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yes, yes. I mean we were... I can't remember if it was this episode or not, but we were talking about like you have to have an expert on your team to run it, let alone having somebody that you pay essentially. And if that person goes, it's... that's problematic, you know?
Ben Fuller: Salesforce has its place, but that place is probably about 2008, I'd say. Um... honestly like... like... for some industries where there are specifically engineered existing setups that are so niche and those setups exist inside of Salesforce, then 100% that's the right option for you. It is just such a minuscule part of the broader business community that I think anyone sort of like, if you're a typical business, like everyday business and you're going to set up a sales CRM, Salesforce would be at the wrong end of a very long list. And so, to come back to your question, it's the complexity that stops adoption as well.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah. For sure. Because if you don't get buy-in from your team, whether that's because they're finding it just too hard to use, because it's too complex... or if they don't understand why you're rolling it out, I suppose that's another big factor, you've got to have that buy-in from the right people. Like you said, if you're going to roll it out for only some of them, it needs to be like the core people who are going to use it that are the ones that have to have some input during your implementation process and... if they haven't had that, they can dig their heels in if they're stubborn.
Ben Fuller: Yeah, and look, some people are under the impression that businesses implement a CRM to keep tabs on them. And that's not why businesses implement a CRM. They implement it so that they can have better data segmentation, less leads fall through the cracks, their reporting is better and all those benefits that we've spoken about ad nauseam. But some people, some, especially old-school salespeople, are under the impression it's about keeping tabs on them. And it's just not. But if you haven't communicated properly to your team about why you're implementing a CRM, they will default to 'oh it's so they can check up on me.' But it's not the case.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Totally. It's an "us and them" thing, isn't it? It's a mentality that doesn't work in these businesses, and especially a CRM is about bringing all of your processes together in one place. And so if you have that us and them, it's not going to work, right?
Ben Fuller: Yeah. At the end of the day I think a CRM is about making the lives of your salespeople easier, right? If we're talking about a sales CRM, right? It's about making the lives of your salespeople easier so that they can do their job in a better fashion. And if that is the way that the project is introduced to the team and you get buy-in on that exact result or outcome that you're looking for, which is to improve the working lives of the salespeople, then you will genuinely get buy-in from the team.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yes. Yes, definitely, definitely. And I guess there's a few other things that we could probably talk about in terms of why CRM implementations fail that we don't personally come across because it's not how we operate, but things like no ongoing support or training. That's going to lead to, you know, a bad result, right?
Ben Fuller: Yeah, because you don't get everything right the first time round. No one does. There's always small changes, or sometimes large that need to be made when the rubber hits the road as far as the CRM going live. And yeah, you will need to make changes. So you do need a little bit of ongoing support. It doesn't have to be significant, but it just needs to be there so that you have the confidence to be able to go ask the question or say, "hey, this isn't quite working for us, what should we do here?" And so yes, that support is critical.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Mmhmm, very important. The other thing that's a big factor, I'm sure you would agree is data, and how good it is, right? I think I've heard you say this before... garbage in, garbage out, right? Like...
Ben Fuller: Yeah. Dirty data kills CRMs. It's just...
Katie Tassone-Milligan: So that... I mean that's something that I know you guys do really well is making sure that in the process that the data is going to be good, because it's no good you guys rolling it out if then it's not going to be effective for them. But that's a factor.
Ben Fuller: Yeah, in the last episode we spoke a little bit around this type of stuff and I think that from a data perspective, we have... we have a data team, about eight people in the data team, and we do a lot of deduplication, a lot of merging of databases from different platforms and things like that, importing them into Pipedrive or Monday and that type of thing. And if the team doesn't have confidence in the data the day that they go live, then again that adoption is... it's going to kill the adoption. And so it's equally as important as training because, you know what, it actually makes training easier because when someone sees their customer, their own customer in the system with that phone number and everything, they're like "Ah!" and it orientates them in the system, right? So "oh, now I understand, now I'm pointing the right way, I get, I get this because I recognise the data in front of me."
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Absolutely.
Ben Fuller: And so that does make it easier from an adoption perspective as well.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah, it's not theory anymore. It's real life. They can actually see it roll out. Yeah, for sure. And I guess, you know, like it's... there's an interesting stat that I found out before this episode and it's that most sources put CRM failure rates at between 30 and 70 percent, so it's really not a rare occurrence, it's actually quite high. And I think it's really that adoption factor and it does come down to the right setup, which conveniently leads to my next question: should you use an implementation partner or do it yourself?
Ben Fuller: The answer is obvious, like you should, right? Even if you're experienced with CRM, you should be focusing on your core business rather than trying to build it yourself. But look, I get the use case of "hey, I've set up CRMs before, I know what I'm doing, I'm going to set up my own pipeline, a few activity types, a few lost reasons and I can import data bang ready to go." And look, if that's the case, what I would do in that situation is um, try to hire someone who's an expert on whatever platform it is that you're implementing for at least a few hours so that you don't make the obvious mistakes, because it is very easy to get bogged down in like using a platform not the way that it's designed to be used, it might feel intuitive, so yeah sure, go ahead and do stuff yourself if you're capable of it. But like less than, less than 1% of people really have that ability.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: That expertise. Yeah. So I guess we agree. Bringing an expert is a good idea. And we would obviously in most cases recommend Motii as being the best option. But if we were to zoom out... What would you suggest people look for in a partner?
Ben Fuller: Oh, okay. You do want a bit of a track record. Right? I think that that's important. Um, if you can find someone that's... a thing, like we're... Motii's very strong in let's say the construction industry, right? And we have some fantastic solutions because we've done it a hundred times, like literally a hundred times. Yeah. And so you probably do want an agency who has a bit of experience in your space um, and is not sort of learning on the go. Sometimes that's not possible, right, if you sell some niche product to some niche group in some brand new sector, sure.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah for sure. Yeah.
Ben Fuller: But, but yeah, I think an agency with a run on the, runs on the board who seems to be at the cutting edge and has worked within your industry. I think those are probably three things that I would go looking for. Having a look at case studies...
Katie Tassone-Milligan: And I mean that's that's what we would have looked at as well, like you say, we brought in experts for our when it came to Intercom. So you looking for somebody who's got a track record in the industry, certified, well you know obviously recognised by the...
Ben Fuller: Yeah, yeah. And so we, we checked like because we're Intercom partners as well, right? We checked, hey, who would you recommend in this space given what we're trying to do? And so yeah, we got some recommendations um as well. So, yeah I think.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: And I guess the other thing sorry I was going to just say is you just want to have that ongoing support model too. You want to have somebody that you can still reach out to post like post-implementation. Like for the adoption, for upgrades, for maintenance, for just general support and training. You know new team members coming in all that. You want to still have a relationship with the partner that you do bring on, even if you're not regularly using them you want to have that relationship right?
Ben Fuller: Yeah, and I think that's the thing about working with a business that does have a few departments, right? So for example at Motii I work predominantly in sales, we have a pretty decent sized implementation team, but we also have a support team, we have our data guys, we have our sort of developers um separate to our automation specialists. And so, not saying that you need to be sort of 30 people like what Motii is, but I would be wary of the one-man bands, one-woman bands because it's very easy and I having as you said before I sort of founded Motii right and the first little bit working almost on my own or with myself and Amber and it's very easy for us to in those days get a job done, move on to the next shiny thing and maybe not be as responsive from a support per—no near as responsive as what Motii is these days right? Because we were really stretched from a resource perspective and so you don't need—I wouldn't go with a massive agency because I think sort of like unless you've got an unlimited budget some of the really big players they charge a lot of money and you can get lost amongst it um and so I think the sweet spot is sort of like between 10 and 40 sort of thing like I'd be I'd like to sit with an agency in that in that bracket I reckon.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yep. Yeah. Where you're you're a person and there's a relationship, you're not a number.
Ben Fuller: Yeah, and everyone in the business knows the company and the person at the company and has a relatively good idea of "oh that's their setup these are the integrations" and so you've got a pretty good idea of what's going on in there and I can picture most of our clients' setups without needing to go into the system and I know their industry and I know a few of their staff and stuff like that.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yep. Yeah. That's massive. That's massive. And I guess that's the thing just circling back to what we do at Motii and the benefits of having that partner set up is, is if you do it right in the beginning, you're not undoing it 6 months later, but you might be tweaking it. And then you've got that ongoing support and the ability to evolve with it over time. Because we can't pretend that it's a set and done thing. It's not. But you don't want to be undoing it like we were talking about with those other corporate, you know, huge big products where where you're like "oh this was a mistake and we've got to start from scratch." But you do need to know that it will evolve over time.
Ben Fuller: Yep. Yeah definitely and I think the nice thing about the products that we work with so Monday, Pipedrive, Intercom, PandaDoc, they're all sort of latest generation software that is flexible, easy to iterate upon and you're not stuck in let's say you've gone down a certain path let's say in Dynamics for example and to reverse is difficult or impossible. Like if you do make a mistake and you do get something wrong, these smaller more nimble products are definitely the way to go because you do have much more flexibility if a mistake has been made.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yep. Oh that's huge. Definitely.
Ben Fuller: Don't choose some little niche product that is only made in Australia and built for people who are in the western suburbs of Brisbane, right? It's just... it's not gonna grow and scale with you.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Yeah. And I think even though it feels like we got sidetracked it all does come back into you know when you ask somebody who's done a thousand implementations and 5000 demos you do know that's the thing and that once again comes back to the benefit of bringing an expert in is that you've got insights that may not seem super obvious at the beginning. But it's valuable. Super valuable information that makes a big difference. So yeah, I think I think it's been useful even if we did go off on a little tangent that's cool.
But in our next mini episode we will be pulling back the curtain on the actual process of what a CRM implementation looks like, how long it usually takes—once again how long is a piece of string—and what you can do to set yourself up before you even speak to anybody. And that one might be a trick question too because I know how you feel about that Ben. But anyway, we will see, we will leave that for the next episode.
Ben Fuller: I do have an answer for that but let's leave that for the next episode.
Katie Tassone-Milligan: Exactly exactly. But we will leave that for the next episode. Thank you very much for joining me Ben and thank you for listening as well. Bye for now.
Ben Fuller: Cheers. Thanks for having me Katie. See you everyone.
Voiceover: That's it for another episode of the Motii Playbook. One shift, one system, one measurable improvement. All information shared in this podcast is general in nature. For tailored advice specific to your business, visit motii.co/playbook and book a momentum call with our team. See you next time.
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