Zendesk Sell vs Pipedrive: An Honest Comparison for Business Owners
Zendesk Sell is retiring in August 2027. Compare it honestly with Pipedrive, feature by feature, and find out if your migration could be an upgrade.
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If you are moving away from Zendesk Sell, the data import is only one part of the job. The bigger opportunity is to review how your CRM supports the way your team actually sells, follows up and reports.
In this conversation, Ben Milligan and Bhuv Sharma unpack what CRM migration really involves, from auditing old data and mapping fields through to rebuilding workflows, training the team and planning for the unexpected.
The episode is the final part of Motii's Zendesk Sell series. It is especially useful for teams considering Pipedrive as their next CRM, or anyone preparing to move from one system to another without dragging old problems into a new tool.
VO: Motii acknowledges the traditional owners of country throughout Australia. We pay our respects to elders past and present, and acknowledge Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the first peoples of this land. Welcome to the Motii Playbook. If you've ever felt like your systems are technically in place, but somehow still feel chaotic behind the scenes, you're in the right spot. This is where we share what we're seeing, what's working, what's not, and the lessons businesses learn the hard way. Think of it as practical strategy straight from the trenches. Let's dive in.
Ben Milligan: Hey everyone, thank you very much for joining today's podcast, listening in to the Motii Playbook: one shift, one system, one measurable improvement. Today I'm joined by Bhuv. Very excited to have Bhuv on his first podcast. So thanks for jumping in today, mate.
Bhuv Sharma: Hey Benny.
Ben Milligan: Yeah, really excited to talk to you about this one. So this podcast today is our third and final episode in our Zendesk Sell series. So first episode we covered everything you need to know about the retirement itself. Episode two, talking about helping you figure out whether Pipedrive is the right CRM for your business. And we're going to have links to both of those in the show notes for today's episode. But today we're going to get into the part that most businesses will underestimate, and that is what a CRM migration actually involves, and what to watch out for so everything goes smoothly. With your background in CRM and project management, let's talk through, you know, some things that you look out for or, you know, where you see some pain points.
Bhuv Sharma: Sure. Yeah. I'll start with one of the biggest misconceptions about data migration is that a lot of times people feel - and even me before joining or coming into this industry and doing a lot of this work - I used to think that data migration or data import is quite simple, right? You have an export with your contacts, emails, and then you have a bulky import of your Excel or CSV file. What's that big deal? Why do people, you know, spend so much time about, or, you know, yeah, like so much time, so much money and all that stuff. But this is the misconception, because a business is not as simple as just having a contact person name, email, and their phone number. If it were that easy, yeah, the data migration is easy. But most of the businesses that we deal with, and I've dealt with, there are so many entities. Like there's contact person, but they are part of an organization, they might have different, like a job role, and there are so many fields, so many data objects, and they are related to opportunities. And we'll talk about this a bit further, but I wanted to just bring this across that data migration and in itself a data import is a very important part of any business process, and also an opportunity to really dive deep into their existing business processes and just see how they can, you know, organize that and also organize their data.
Ben Milligan: I think that's such a great point there. Like, so often we see companies treat that migration as just a data transfer, like you talked about, you know, bringing some names, email addresses, and phone numbers across. But yeah, that opportunity to, you know, review and rebuild process, I think is a great point, you know, moving into a new system like that, because you are looking at, you know, totality. And just because there are ways that you may have done things previously, you know, it's a good opportunity, you know, for that review process. I think adding to that, you know, something that I see very often is, you know, sometimes the data migration might be handled by, you know, the previous CRM team or, you know, maybe a technical-based team. Sometimes there's not enough consultation with the team that's using this data on a day-to-day basis and getting them involved. Because that's where we can see some issues coming up. We've all worked on data migrations where we've got the brief for what information needs to come across, we're successful in bringing that data through, it's mapped as described, but then when we start talking to the team who's going to be using that data, it's either a whole bunch of irrelevant stuff, there's missing data points, or things aren't connected properly because they weren't involved early enough in the process. And I think that's not just from a, I guess a data migration standpoint, but you know, touching back on that process sort of side of things as well.
Bhuv Sharma: Exactly. And just to add to this, a lot of times, and you may also subscribe to this, Benny, that when a business changes their CRM, it's usually these two of the cases: either their older CRM did not advance in technology as it should, and it's now not meeting the business needs. And the second one is that the team is not using the data or the whole data fields, or let's say the whole process, the CRM in the way they were supposed to be using it. And that's why they want to move to a new CRM hoping that the new CRM will offer them something, a different way of doing things. But actually it goes into the thing on how is the team, like let's say the sales team, going to handle that data? Are there fields that they are really going to work on? Are they there? How do they input the data on a daily basis? And yeah, that's crucial.
Ben Milligan: Yeah, absolutely. Before we move on to, we're going to talk about sort of preparing for a data migration, but I'm curious to know in your experience across, you know, not just Pipedrive but the sort of Monday.com type environment, are there any sort of key things that differentiate those type of tools or are we looking at the same sort of concerns or areas where things could go wrong?
Bhuv Sharma: I would say, in terms of the import there are a bit interface differences between a tool like, let's say Pipedrive or Monday.com, but the fundamentals are the same. Because a lot of work that is involved in a data migration and data import happens before you actually get that bulk import into the new CRM. It is, as we say, the preparatory process, what columns you need, what data fields would be there, and so on.
Ben Milligan: Okay. But yeah, more or less it is the same. But if you were to think about that preparation phase for a migration, what are some of the keys that you'd like to, you know, some keys that you could provide the listeners to give them some help?
Bhuv Sharma: I think one of the things - and that's how also we deal with the clients, and the individuals can also do this - is to first get the complete export. Like a sample export of their current CRM. The idea is to be able to see their data in a spreadsheet. Because when you look at the CRM there are interface issues, like there may be a different interface, different objects stored in different places. But what you want to look at your data is the column headers or how it's currently structured. So I'll give you these three are almost in all of the CRMs: contact person details, the organization (the company that they work for), and the opportunities (the deals that the sales people deal on a regular basis). So the first thing, our first step, would be to have that in a spreadsheet. And then start looking at the columns, like basically just start cleaning that sheet from a column perspective, not the data perspective, that comes a bit later. But it's like there are several metadata fields like date created, modified date, like very redundant. You don't need them. You want to narrow your view as comfortable or as useful as possible. So let's say there are 10 columns on an organization, a company, so there's a company name, company address, website, and you know, there are a lot of details, maybe Instagram handle and Facebook handle. But at one point, when you're able to see what it gives you an insight is that, do I really want this data in my new CRM? Because there may be some placeholder data fields available in the older CRM and that's why we had it. But while going through, do we need that? So that also gets the team in the process of thinking, getting the stakeholders that would be involved in managing that data - like the sales team for example, or maybe the marketing team if they are contact related fields - to get into a conversation and really look at, from this perspective, start looking at their business process as well. "Hey, do we need these fields? Or what are the new fields that we need which we were not actually capturing at that point?" So this is, I would say, step one and step two of the data preparation. And the third part from there on comes the data cleaning. Which is, for example, the email fields, and it happens a lot of times, the email fields have contact numbers, contact numbers have text values, which would require for you to, when you're getting into a new CRM, it's the opportunity to either start from very fresh scratch, or if you're getting your data, get the clean data.
Ben Milligan: Yeah. So that's really important. So like, it sounds like there's almost two phases to data cleaning, right? So there's the actual, you know, data that doesn't look good, you gave great examples there, I think we've all seen that data spreadsheet where an email field contains a phone number or a whole bunch of text or something like that. So there's that clean up, which I think most people would expect and think through, but there's also the clean up of the actual data points you're bringing across, like having that opportunity to review all the fields and data points that you've got and identifying, "Okay, what's key to bring across? What can we leave behind?" But then also, "What do we need to add in the future?" And I think that's really important. I definitely think that's an overlooked step for a lot of people, a lot of businesses, you know, I think just in conversations I've had with clients, yeah, and that can make such an impact once you migrate to that new system because you've got the points that you really need.
Bhuv Sharma: Definitely.
Ben Milligan: Yeah, really interesting. Just before we move on, Bhuv, I'm really keen just to sort of have a quick chat about the process side of things, right? So we've talked about data and I think some really, really helpful points there. You know, but in that top of the episode, we touched on having an opportunity to review processes and workflows. Maybe just quickly talk me through how you start investigating that or how you work with clients to guide that?
Bhuv Sharma: So I'll take an example of a typical Pipedrive implementation. It could be any CRM but just to give you an idea around that. So how we do this work is that while we get the data import at the end when your whole CRM is ready for you to get the data and there's all architecture and system fields all created. Now, but the data preparation and the talk through the business process happens simultaneously in the background. So while we are creating the columns or stages in the business process, mapping them into pipelines and Pipedrive stages, but when it, and I'll talk about deals module, opportunities that a lot of people see. So an opportunity would have a lot of, let's say, data fields. So when you're qualifying your lead, you would want to know for example, their lead source, what is their requirement, and their locality, region, state, and so many other things based on your business. There is a possibility that in your older CRM you were not capturing a lot of that data. You were still using an Excel spreadsheet or just notes or just, you know, handwritten things while you're on a call. So that's where the data, the data columns that you now have in your spreadsheet from your older CRM, tells you that story that, "Okay, what is the data that we... like the data columns that we were missing? And how should now or maybe we have too many of those columns in our existing CRM." Like we have 50 columns. I've dealt with clients, they had 100 columns. They had data in there, but of course never used it. And when we brought it into our system, we reduced it till 20. And what that meant was a change in their business process, which was, "Hey, you know what, we don't need all those data fields. Why we don't need them? Because in all those stages, we don't want to create barriers for the salespeople to enter so much data because that's not useful. They are not going to use it. We can have them in let's say Pipedrive notes, the notes section, rather than storing them as data fields and making it mandatory for people to do it." This is something where while you're working through a sales process, this conversation keeps coming back to: "Hey, what is the sort of data that you store? What is the sort of contact persons?" Or if I talk about contact persons and companies module, just going a bit technical here, but it would be useful, is that in a data import, as I said, it's not as easy as getting contacts in. But sometimes within a contact, maybe related to a company, but within its own profile it has past company's information as well. Like these are the ex-companies it worked for. So that kind of a mapping requires multiple, like multi-data import, that's what we call it, multiple imports. And that's where it becomes a bit complex. But it is useful as well because you want to store that data, but what are the kind of relations you are making between different objects and entities in there. So yeah, that becomes a crucial part of that process as well.
Ben Milligan: That relationship is such a key piece and how things link together. But yeah, thanks for taking us through that. Like for me, what I get from that is it's really a hand-in-hand process. Like your data and your processes, it's almost like you can't treat one without the other, and you sort of think about them in conjunction. So yeah, I mean obviously, you know, people who work with us, we can, you know, guide them through that process and we take them step-by-step. But for people who are looking, you know, for hints and tips on doing their own migration from one system to another, that would be something I would take away from that is, you know, treat them, you know, don't treat your data as one part of the project and your processes as another part, they really need to be intertwined.
Bhuv Sharma: Definitely. And I've seen this with many of my clients is the attachment to their existing processes and existing data. And there's nothing wrong with it, like we all are so used to doing things a certain way that we get attached to it, and a change then, like there is a barrier in bringing that change. But this data migration is something that, you know, enforces that change to be done. And I think it's a wonderful opportunity for any business whenever they are changing their CRM or doing data migration, do look at your processes because that would be a very beneficial exercise going forward.
Ben Milligan: Excellent. Yeah, no, very, very good. Sort of talked about some of these points already, which is great, but we'll talk through them. So point one, we'll get started, is audit your current data before anything else. So Bhuv, I think you've covered this really nicely. You know, there's very much those two parts to it, right? There's, you know, reviewing the actual fields you're bringing across, making some decisions on how important that is in the new system and how valuable that data is. Or if it's, you know, not needed, just remove it. And then there's the actual cleaning of the data itself. So that could be validating phone numbers, or that your email fields are actually showing email values. Another part of this process, you know, you could use tools like ZeroBounce, you know, if you want to check to see if all the contacts, you know, have active email addresses depending on the age of the database. So yeah, very much step one is audit your current data before anything else. I'll let you take step two, Bhuv.
Bhuv Sharma: The step two would be to map your fields before you build anything. And which is to say as we were discussing, whatever fields that you had in your CRM, like your older CRM, those fields would need a place in your new CRM. Now they may be in a different shape and form, maybe you do some edits around their name change and all that can come later as a later part of step. But this process is important that you know that these are the columns you are bringing in, that's as simple as that. The columns that you're not bringing, or the data that you're bringing, you just map it to your new CRM.
Ben Milligan: Yeah, great.
Bhuv Sharma: Yeah.
Ben Milligan: Our third point here is rebuild your workflows. I think I'm gonna let you take this one as well Bhuv. We spoke, you know, really well about it earlier. So maybe just a quick summary on that one for step three.
Bhuv Sharma: Yeah. So if I pick it from the second step, so let's say you've audited your current data, you have mapped the fields. Now while you have data in place, and now you're talking through the processes where in your sales process, your opportunity for example moves from one stage to another, and I'll take a very quick example here of a required fields feature in Pipedrive. Where a lot of times clients complain that their sales team doesn't really comply with editing data, like adding data after their calls and all. But now when you pick those problems, and that's where you rebuild your flows. How you do that is, let's say before moving to a certain stage, you make a field, like you make certain fields required. Unless the salesperson fills those fields, they are not able to move their opportunity into a different stage. Maybe the next stage is "prepare quote", but you can't prepare that quote unless you have all the qualified lead info that you need to be there. And those are a few things which if you see, they are revolving around data, right? Which field should be there, do we make this compliant? And then there are a lot of automations that kick in, which is like just right after the call auto update stages, auto update some fields as well. So there are a lot of things that can be done based on what are the problems that the team and the client have faced in their previous CRM or like the previous process.
Ben Milligan: Hmm. Yeah. Such a great point. Yeah, I think this is definitely, I think it's underestimated so often in this. Yeah. So, yeah, super, super valuable there. Okay. So step four in our checklist is do a pilot migration before going all in. And so what we mean by this is, you know, doing a test import. So not necessarily limiting the number of fields, but the number of records. So our data team will do this quite often, where they'll take a small sampling of a data set, they'll import it in so that we can actually get in and review and make sure that the fields are mapping to the correct places. I know myself, you know, every now and then I'll jump in and do a data import. Usually I leave it to the professionals in our team, but I'll jump in every now and then. And the amount of times, you know, there's a feature in Pipedrive that's fantastic, which is the revert import feature, and I know I've needed to use that quite a number of times because I'll do that test import, see that a field isn't quite mapping the way it should be or we've, you know, the data is not coming across as we expected, and having that opportunity to roll that back. Obviously super, super helpful for me, but it really just talks to the importance of, yeah, having a bit of a sample migration before you roll everything in and get the team in using it.
Bhuv Sharma: Correct. And just to add to that, like let's say when you're working with one of the point of contact with a client, it's also a good opportunity to show how this data would look in their new CRM and they also get a visibility on that and again there can be feedbacks on that. So this sample import is definitely a great way to showcase.
Ben Milligan: Very good. Alright, so our next point here Bhuv is identify an internal champion. I'm going to talk, talk to this one a little.
Bhuv Sharma: Yeah. Very important. If you don't want to make your new CRM as your old CRM, this is a very, very important step, is to get one champion within your, you know, within the company, who knows Pipedrive, who knows how to use Pipedrive like an expert. Because then that person could be the one where all of the people forward their queries, any questions are there, they can jump into with that person, they can train - it's called train the trainer - and that's what this is to have the internal champion know kind of in and outs about how the Pipedrive is being set up or let's say any CRM is being set up. And yeah, how that appears.
Ben Milligan: Yeah. So that would be really key to have that person identified before go live too, right? You don't want a champion coming on after the fact, you kind of want them through the process and really owning that.
Bhuv Sharma: Definitely. A lot of times, Benny, that happens. If a champion comes later on, there are chances because they were not part of all the other steps that we just talked about, they might have new ideas and would, you know, would like to change the whole process. Which, which again disrupts a process and again it's nothing that they are coming out wrong or something, but it's just that it's good to have the champion before, because they are part of all the other steps that have been there in the data import.
Ben Milligan: Yeah. Excellent. I think that that sort of moves really nicely into our sort of sixth point here, which is about training the team before go live, not after. We kind of touched on this before, where quite often when we're doing a migration from one tool to another, the data is one of the last things that we see. So generally, you know, quite often because people think they're nearing the finish line, it's kind of like, "Alright, let's get the data in and we'll just learn on the go." And look, there's just so many pitfalls associated with that. You really want to have a point where the team is still operating in the old system, so you still got your business as usual operations going on, but getting the team starting to be skilled in that new system. So, you know, in this podcast obviously we talk about Pipedrive a lot, but getting them into the system so they've got an idea. And I think this has a few benefits. Firstly, it gives the team confidence for that switch over point. You know, quite often we get some resistance, you know, from frontline teams about, "Hey, we're coming away from this system and we're going to start Pipedrive on this date," you know, but, "How do we do this? How do we do that?" So having that sort of training prior to that can help give that confidence in moving in. But it also means you've got time to discuss any of those new systems and processes that you may have worked through with the champions or the team that you're working on. And how that might impact that team moving forward. And it's always much easier to work through those questions and, you know, maybe work through some feedback points while we're still in the development stage, as opposed to this is now the day-to-day system and there's confusion and just, you know, adding frustration to the team. So that training piece is super important.
Bhuv Sharma: Definitely. Yeah.
Ben Milligan: Excellent. Okay, so the next thing we're going to talk about for a little bit is just, you know, things to watch out for. So you know, we've both, I'm sure had these experiences and whether it's projects we've worked on or, you know, things that we've heard from companies doing a migration from one system to another, where they've followed the steps, they've planned everything out, you know, they've gone through some processes and they're reviewing things, they've got the champions, they're doing all the right things. But there are still things out there that can catch people off. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this Bhuv, and, you know, what sort of things that you would recommend people still look out for even after going through those processes and step by steps.
Bhuv Sharma: Yeah. I think like one of the key things which I have seen over several implementations is that the people should be able to access the information that they were inputting in their previous CRM. Now what I mean by that is that they were using an old CRM and there was a way of doing things. So let's say there were 40 columns they were using and now it has reduced to 20 columns, but there are still active deals that are ongoing from active opportunities they are pursuing. And they want to still look at some of the data. And to be able to hold, either there's a CSV export that is available to them, or you have brought it in some way or form, like how we have done it for our other clients is to get them a link to their older spreadsheet where they can just review and go back and look at the information if they want to. They have most of the information in the new CRM, but still giving them an option to review their past is one important. Also bringing in the history correctly is something which is important, let's say the activities, the tasks. There might be an opportunity where they did specific tasks or wrote specific historical notes three years before which might be useful now. They want to see how many deals they have lost or won. And this is the kind of information which sometimes gets lost in, you know, a bulk data that you are importing, you mostly focus on the current things that are happening, but even sometimes the past information is useful. Similarly, the past information is also sometimes not at all useful for clients which need to really, you know, drop that baggage and not bring the data which might be garbage. So those would be a few things. And one thing would also be, I would say, integrations, for example. So their old CRM might be integrating with certain tools. And while you're bringing this into the new system, if let's say you have changed certain tools, like if you change a telephony solution, which the old CRM had its native solution, but now in their new CRM either they need a new tool or new things, again, the training the champion and letting them know on covering all those grounds on do we have the new integrations? If they don't have the new integrations, having them a clear timeline around when this is going to happen would be useful. So that they are, again, not in the dark on how to operate certain stuff.
Ben Milligan: Yeah. Yeah, super helpful that. And they are, yeah, very often things that, you know, I see can get overlooked. And it's always good to sort of keep those in mind. Yeah, really, really important that one. I think for me in this space, having a rollback plan, you know, like I know that you and I have both worked on projects where somebody may be migrating from a system that subscription ends on a very, very hard date and they just have to be in that new system, right? And as, you know, that kind of talks to having that cutoff date, and that works fine. You know, we want to ensure we have that cutoff date, but we also don't necessarily want to burn the boat, so to speak. You know, if moving into this new system and, you know, especially to those points you just made there Bhuv around, you know, integrating to platforms and, you know, that historic type information, having all those pieces in place. For the most part, you know, you're hoping that those planned and the steps that you take is going to prepare you and you're in that new system, you've done your sample import, you've got your processes running, and everything's going to be running smoothly. But something inevitably could always come up and unexpected, and you may, just to keep business operations flowing, need to fall back into that old system. So it doesn't happen all the time, this is something that's, you know, obviously not every single migration you'd expect this to happen, otherwise we'd be doing this completely wrong. But, you know, there are times where sometimes that needs to happen. So really important to think about, for anyone out there who's doing their own migration and moving from one system to the other, having that crossover period where yes, you've got the hard cut date where people are now in that new system, but if it comes to it and it's, you know, critical to the business that you need to fall back into that system, make sure you've got the capacity to do that. I now I wouldn't expect this to be months later, I think you'd know really, really quickly if that's the case. But just having that as a safety fall back, I think is really, really important.
Bhuv Sharma: Definitely, 100%.
Ben Milligan: Because I think what's, you know, what's really important to understand here, and something that we work through very, very regularly here at Motii, is even with, like, really great preparation and following the steps and doing the things that you need to do, something unexpected can come up. And being able to be flexible and have a plan and be able to overcome those challenges is the difference between a, you know, a painful migration and a successful one. Because I don't think I've worked on a migration - I've done many here both at Motii for Pipedrive and other platforms in previous roles - I cannot think of one that just went like silky smooth the whole way. There's always little things that come up and little hurdles, little hammers. So having that flexibility there is really, really important. And I think for me the last one, and I think this is just something that I try to talk to as much as possible, is understanding timeframes. You know, don't over-expect a migration to go quickly. Don't think it's something that can be wrapped up over a weekend or a couple of days. You know, Bhuv and I have talked about the different steps to go through and process review and data cleanup, these things take time. So having some expectation around, okay, and planning it, how long is this going to take? Like putting some key milestones in place. Because I think yeah, expecting a, you know, full CRM migration with eight years worth of data and sales and historic sales and notes and all those sort of things, having an expectation that that could be done in a couple of days, you're just setting yourself up for failure there.
Bhuv Sharma: Right, Benny. The kind of case that you just mentioned, like 8 years of data and all, it can take weeks. And weeks because again, if you go through that checklist, all of those steps, it really, yeah, there's so much data to get, map, discard, and then train a team. Yeah, so definitely not a couple of days.
Ben Milligan: Alright, well I think this just about brings us to wrapping up the podcast. This has been a lot of fun. I really enjoyed doing this with you Bhuv. And it's gone a lot quicker than I thought. But what we, for those of you who have listened to one of the Motii Playbook episodes previously, you'll know that we do a like a one shift. We want to, you know, if there's one thing that somebody can take away from this episode to help them, so, you know, I'll ask you this question Bhuv. If somebody's listening to this right now and about to start their own CRM migration, what is one shift in thinking that you're hoping they take away from today's episode?
Bhuv Sharma: I would say, Benny, one key takeaway would be to treat this data migration as an opportunity to redefine their business processes. And even if there is not a need, it's still a look into the business process to see if that is all going correctly. The technicalities and the import and everything can happen, there is a fixed way of doing that, but yeah, treating data migration as your new look into business processes is the takeaway I would say.
Ben Milligan: Yeah, super valuable. For me, it's going to be have that champion. You know, have someone in the business, and it doesn't necessarily need to be the person who signed off on the migration or who's making the decision about the migration, but have somebody who can be that champion so that, you know, you've got somebody driving this as a project, but also somebody who can be making those decisions and almost filter where all the questions are going to come from the team. You know, as opposed to multiple people making multiple decisions that could be in conflict with each other. Having that one person, and you know, across the migration from the very beginning all the way through to that, you know, few weeks after go live and everything's running smoothly, I think is super, super valuable. So yeah, for me, if people haven't had that shift and thought about that as a process, I think that is super valuable. For all the listeners out there, you can see our show notes and more information at motii.co/playbook. That's where you're also going to find that Zendesk Sell migration guide, and all the notes across all three episodes about this Zendesk Sell process we've got a little mini-series going on. So I really hope, you know, with this being a wrap on that Zendesk Sell series, really hope it's given you a clear picture of what's happening. So, you know, we know that Pipedrive has been recommended as an alternative to Zendesk Sell, and I'm sure that's been touched on in the other episodes. So yeah, we're really excited because we, you know, we love Pipedrive, we've been working with it for a very long time now, we've won multiple awards, which is not why we do it but it just shows that, you know, we like doing what we're doing and we get good results. So yeah, for anyone out there who is in that situation around that Zendesk Sell, if you do have any questions, you know, jump onto that motii.co/playbook, you can reach out to us and we're more than happy to have a conversation about your individual case and how we can help plan out a migration, you know, from that system into Pipedrive. With that in mind, thank you very much for listening or watching today. I really appreciate it. And you know, we'll see you on the next one. Take care.
VO: That's it for another episode of the Motii Playbook: one shift, one system, one measurable improvement. All information shared in this podcast is general in nature. For tailored advice specific to your business, visit motii.co/playbook and book a momentum call with our team. See you next time.
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